Every so often I need to blow off some steam, to vent, to let myself step away from controlled reason and take a swipe at some of those who’ve made a quest out of trying to slap me down and shut me up.
Today seems like a good day for it.
Anyone who has been reading here for a while has seen posts from Kim, kimkim, reunionwritings … whatever she choses to call herself on any given comment … and may have noticed that she and I don’t agree on much.
She’s a birth mother, I’m an adoptive mom, so different perspectives are to be expected. I have been under the impression that coming to my blog indicated that Kim is at least somewhat interested in what I have to say, but it seems that is not the case.
Apparently convinced that she is not only smarter than I am, but prettier, too, taking issue with my writing had become a bit of a mission, but setting me straight, or her version of straight, rather fell apart at the seams.
In a fashion I’ve seen before, Kim’s comments degenerated quickly, falling from the lofty “Nice to ‘dialougue’ with you” (sic) posted here, to drive-by slappings dished out on other peoples’ blogs.
The straw that did in my make nice camel today … being the second slap from Kim in one morning … appeared on Nicole’s blog, Paragraphein.
Nicole had written a lovely post to a fifteen-year-old pregnant girl, April, detailing the process and pain of her own relinquishment, her regrets, and her conviction that parenting is the right choice for most.
Much in the post resonated with me, since I, too, had an unplanned pregnancy. I was 17 at the time, and although younger and with different issues, went through very much the same mental and emotional processes. Also like Nicole, I have a long-term brain chemistry issue that I have lived with for years … hers is bi-polar, mine clinical depression … and there was a time when my illness was not controlled as it now is, so I understand what it is like to suffer in some of the same ways.
So … what did I do? I posted this comment:
We walked such similar paths. I’ve offered to share mine with April, too.
Kim responded with this:
I want to poke fun at Sandra’s outrageous comment but will refrain since it’s your blog.
It seems no matter how respectful I am, how hard I try to bridge these gaps, these Grand Canyons, between my note on the triad chord and others, how much effort I put into educating those new to adoption on the vital necessity of building and maintaining respect, honor, ethics … blah, blah, blah, because that seems all it is when it hits deaf ears … some bloody birth mother will try to knock me back, invalidate my POV, erase my contribution and dismiss my experience.
I’ve written before about how reticent I am to pin “Birth Mother” on attacks, but it’s getting very hard not to call a spade a spade.
I am very sorry that people have pain and for those who never manage to crawl out of their hole of suffering, but I’ve not yet seen it dictated that relinquishing a child for adoption relieves one of the social responsibility of respect for others. And as for carte blanche for nastiness, well, that’s only good on your own turf. The rest of the world expects better manners.
A collection of my short stories:
I'm in this one, too ...
And I'm in here, as well ...
Paradise Preoccupied 
You’ve said it all. Nothing left for me to add here, Sandra.
I’m sorry that someone made that comment to you, and I’m sure your perspective will also be valuable to the girl for whom the letter was intended.
You’ve worded it so much better than I have. Why do they say it’s “ironic” when we express the desire to get the same respect they desire to get?
I woke up this morning angry. Writing that long comment last night on your previous post didn’t help me feel better like I thought it would. I realized I can start carrying that anger around, which would make me want to start hurting others.
I will not become that person. God help me, I will not become that person.
-jess
Hey S:
I’m sorry that happened to you. However, considering the cast involved, it’s hardly surprising. I can certainly empathize. I spent a fair amount of time attempting to dialogue with that caliber of triad member, including Nicole, and it got me a drive-by slapping similar to yours. I wouldn’t worry about dialogue with them. You have to earn respect in order to dialogue and by her actions, I doubt that Kim has earned any respect.
They are part of a group who are comepletely vested in and dedicated to hearing their own words regurgitated back to them with cultish accuracy. Any deviation from their point of view or to introduce tolerance is very threatening to them and they react viciously. They “dialogue” only with each other….any interaction with others is an attempt to recruit them into the “birthmothers always good, adoption always bad” mantra. They turn only to each other for confirmation of the accuracy of their views and then fall all over themselves to praise and love on each other. When logical points are introduced into their chanting, they respond, not with openess or dialogue, but with insults and character defamation to deflect from valid points. Any hand stretched to you in invitation is intended to pull you into their crowd; if you say anything that doesn’t fit into their strictly enforced parameters, that hand quickly turns to claw, slap and sweep away your words.
Like I said, respect is earned and if people, by their actions, have earned the opposite of respect, it is definitely your gain to be “outside” their crowd.
As far as the pretty thing goes; don’t make me laugh. I’ve seen pictures of both you and KimKim and, believe me, your beauty is obvious. As for Kim’s beauty……well, I’m sure she can tell you all about how beautiful she is as I’m fairly sure she spends a lot of time admiring herself.
Oh Sandra, it is beyond frustrating. I generally lurk and don’t post much. It seems like there is a alot of back and forth among the triad lately. Again, it’s the same double standard that has been around since I started reading adoption blogs two years ago. Birthmoms want to be “heard” and yet they have little tolerance/willingness to see other people’s POV. It comes across as elitest at times (you are not “enlightened”…). The end result is alienation – is that what they want? Sometimes it’s hard to wade through the garbage to understand the point they are making. While I have learned some from that side of the triad, it is tedious at best. This “adopter” throws her hands in the air….
Wow. They are really raking you over the coals on another blog, Sandra.
I am so sorry this is happening. You probably have a very thick skin. To so many people that read these blogs, it is obvious what is happening. Instead of enlightening, many people are alienating. Do they not get that?
If I was the girl in question, and started reading peoples nasty comments on blogs, I’d think twice about what “side” I’d want to listen to.
I do think it is cool that, in another post, Nicole asked people to give a poster a break. Good for her, and I mean that sincerely. It is hard to tell friends to back off. Many chose not to, and that says more about them. Do they really think they will change someones mind with the downright nastiness?
Raking me over the coals? Gee … what a surprise. As I said on Nicole’s blog, it’s pitiful, simply pitiful.
Good point, Tisha. I don’t want to say her name, unless she gives me permission, but there was an adoptive mom who was saying she was starting to “get it.” Of course, what she was getting was not what they were spewing, but I guess no one realized that because.. All of a sudden, the nastiness turned to… “oh, you have such an amazing heart, etc..” As if her heart wasn’t amazing before?
I wonder if they still think her heart is amazing? I do.
For the record, Kim Kim is smarter and prettier than you.
Wow. The first time you came to my blog, you warned me of the floggings. I am really amazed, though, at some of the things that were said to you there. It goes back to my big complaint–there are just some people who want to be handled with kid gloves, while strapping boxing gloves on themselves.
We could all get so much further if *everyone* just tried to play nice.
There are times I want to comment with supportive comments on firstparent and adoptee blogs, but support has so often been misinterpreted, that I usually just don’t say anything anymore.
I often wonder if some of these people are who they claim to be. On the internet we can be “anyone we choose to be” and people reinvent themselves.
This person, whoever he or she is, is pure venom and hopefully will get tired of her own nastiness and stop blogging.
Sorry Sandra,
L.
“I’ve written before about how reticent I am to pin “Birth Mother” on attacks, but it’s getting very hard not to call a spade a spade.”
The thought of you being reticient or NOT calling a spade a spade is comical. I hear that respect is earned and your attacks on birth mothers are well documented, but YOU want respect? You want birth mothers to be nice to you? Hmmm……that’s pretty funny. Thanks for the chuckle.
addiepray,
“For the record, Kim Kim is smarter and prettier than you.”
Shouldn’t that be In my opinion … ? Or do you have the mandate on this, too?
Jan cookiebaker,
I wondered when you were going to jump in with your slap. Just waiting until the gang’s all gathered, heh? Yeah, that would be about right.
I could give a shit about birth mothers being nice, Jan. I gave up on that as a possibility once I learned that doesn’t happen outside the coven. Respect, however, yes, and it’s not so much a matter of “want” as “deserve”.
By the way, could you point me in the direction of these “attacks” on birth mothers you suggest are well documented? You’re full of it, Jan, and you know it.
Hey Jan and addiepray:
Does this mean we’ll be kicked out of your sandbox? Awwww, no fair.
but the thing is, that your attitude towards natural mothers varies somewhere between frequently criticizing us and showing constant disrepect for us.
for example: the moment you call us “birth mothers” you attack us. i’m not a f*cking walking incubator, thanks!
so i don’t see why it’s so different for anyone to say something about you, someone who is a first mother, because it is obvious that you are very ready to write us of as being nothing but convenient body parts, and that is what the term ‘birth mother’ was coined to mean — a non-mother, former-mother, mother-for-reproductive-purposes-only, etc.
maybe if you started using terminology that showed respect for us — and actually believed that coercion exists and that some of us experienced it and thus did NOT “choose adoption” (a coerced choice is NOT a choice at all) — you would not face this much criticism as you appear to in responses to your writings.
Rebecca,
I use the term birth mother, two words, because Jan cookiebaker suggested that was the correct and proper term.
You see, out of respect and an attempt to build bridges, I asked a birth mother … a woman I worked with at the time who was touted as representational … for advice on the polite form of address.
So, if you have a problem with “birth mother”, I suggest you take it up in committee … a committee of birth mothers who will come to a consensus on what you collectively demand we lower forms of life should use to address your lofty selves as we worship at your madonna-like feet.
For a more complete response to your uninformed and nasty spew, see my next post.
“i’m not a f*cking walking incubator, thanks!”
Really? Then how did you get pregnant? You don’t strike me as the immaculate conception type.
addiepray,
“For the record, Kim Kim is smarter and prettier than you.”
Shouldn’t that be In my opinion … ? Or do you have the mandate on this, too?
As a matter of fact, I do have a mandate on that. I’m a consultant to the committee of first mothers. BTW, they also consult with us adoptees, together we represent an evil cabal. .
Gee … I’m SO jealous. It will probably ruin my life.
“And while you’re at it, try to find something in the thousands of links that shows me being disrespectful to birth mothers. You won’t, because nothing exists.”
Have you conveniently forgotten all the Mirah attacks? And Jessica? I guess so. Want me to post those links? Or did you someone get those taken down? How on earth can you possibly say on Nicole’s blog that you have never been disrespectful to birth mothers?
“I gave up on that as a possibility once I learned that doesn’t happen outside the coven.”
Sure, that’s respectful too – calling us witches. As a matter of fact, I AM respectful to most adoptive moms – most deserve respect. Most don’t call birth moms “witches” for starters.
How about comment no. 18 above – that’s respectful?
Apparently, you believe that it is perfectly fine when you attack others, but you don’t want the same in return, right? It doesn’t work that way.
Don’t flatter yourself, I am not a regular reader, but…..when I saw you on Nicole’s blog saying that you respect birth mothers…..
Still intentionally obtuse, heh, Jan? You never have been able to understand the difference between criticizing someone’s writing and criticizing the person or the group they represent, have you? (And by the way, Jessica isn’t a birth mother. Remember?) Heck, you can’t even get who’s doing the attacking.
You know damned well the coven comment comes with this oh-so-blantant and organized onslaught, and you and your gang deserve the designation with the way you’ve been acting.
And I know you read me every single day and always have.
No one is attacking a group of people as a whole, Jan. There is certainly a large subset of people that have gotten extraordinarily nasty, and I dare say they deserve the words they are getting. I don’t care if they are first mothers, adoptive mothers, or adoptees. Call a spade a spade. If one side wants to throw mud, don’t get pissy when the other side throws it back.
Go to the “Dear April” thread. The first comment that Sandra posted was a very nice one. Almost immediately, she was belittled and her character was assasinated.
What happens next?
She walks away, and the group pats themselves on the back because they have won.
She defends herself and says some nasty (buy well deserved words) to those that are being completely excoriating with their posts, and now she is a horrible person. Right?
And yes, it is scary when everyone jumps on the bandwagon because it is fun. Legal4orphans and Nicole herself are the only ones that didn’t seem to want to attend that party, and good for them.
Did you notice how everyone jumped all over the Karmamental post? Good Lord, she was trying to be nice, and clearly did not understand that her words might be offensive (to some, because there are others that would not mind hearing them). Even after she tried to clarify, she was still attacked. Can anyone be nice?
And don’t give me anything about Sandra not being nice. It is clear that she did not start anything on that thread.
What is wrong with you people? wow.
I know the difference between criticizing someone’s writing and criticizing a person. Calling someone “obtuse” (which seems to be a favorite of yours) is attacking a person, so is telling someone that they are “full of themselves.” Of course, those are mild in comparision to some of the words you called Mirah and Jessica (yes, I do know she’s not a birth mom).
As for organized onslaught, I’d love to know what that is. There is no “me and my gang.” I have no “gang” or a coven either. Makes no difference though WHY you are using the witch reference; it has nothing to do with anyone’s writing or anything else but their character.
You know that I read you every single day? I don’t read any blogs every single day – and I hadn’t read your for months until recently. If I had been reading your blog daily, I’d never have been able to keep my mouth shut for this long!
It was a mistake to read your blog though, one that I won’t make again. I should know better by now what to expect from you.