A science is any discipline in which the fool of this generation can go beyond the point reached by the genius of the last generation. ~Max Gluckman
Finally!
Yes, the discovery has now been made that has expanded our version of what life is, and it’s NASA, not an organization bent on biology, that stretched the limits of living.
Seems there are, after all, life forms that don’t conform to the accepted definition … go figure … and what an eye-opener, heh?
“The definition of life has just expanded,” said Ed Weiler, NASA’s associate administrator for the Science Mission Directorate at the agency’s Headquarters in Washington. “As we pursue our efforts to seek signs of life in the solar system, we have to think more broadly, more diversely and consider life as we do not know it.”
I am so confused.
It is possible folks have actually been running on the assumption that all life everywhere must be made of the same stuff that came up with us? And … did it really need to take finding an example of something different here on Earth to get those folks to reconsider their perspective?
Well … if so, that’s just dumb.
NASA-supported researchers have discovered the first known microorganism on Earth able to thrive and reproduce using the toxic chemical arsenic. The microorganism, which lives in California’s Mono Lake, substitutes arsenic for phosphorus in the backbone of its DNA and other cellular components.
Okay. That’s one ‘rule’ down the drain then, isn’t it, since up until now the thought has been that it took six building blocks — carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, phosphorus and sulfur — to fire up the living thang in everything from amoeba to zebra; anything not having those six basics was not considered to be alive.
As the research team’s lead scientist put it: If something here on Earth can do something so unexpected, what else can life do that we haven’t seen yet?
Good question … and should be followed by: Why are we so surprised?
To know the history of science is to recognize the mortality of any claim to universal truth. ~Evelyn Fox Keller
I’ve spent no little time considering what “life” is made of, and have come to the conclusion that it ain’t what we think it is. In fact, it seems to me that the part of us those six blocks stack up to may be the least of what we are.
It’s the limiting nature … biology … of the human mind that makes so illusive the far reaches of consciousness, not the other way round, and it’s the consciousness that makes everything else, including the biology. It follows, then, that we are more than our physical form. We’re like tequila … whether it be rotgut or nectar de dioses … most of our potential is wasted while in the bottle.
Who’s to say that it’s not energy … light, sound, electromagnetic waves, something else that has escaped our limited notice … that’s the bit that constitutes LIFE? Biochemists, for one, I suppose, but now they’re even having to rethink.
“The idea of alternative biochemistries for life is common in science fiction,” said Carl Pilcher, director of the NASA Astrobiology Institute at the agency’s Ames Research Center in Moffett Field, Calif. “Until now a life form using arsenic as a building block was only theoretical, but now we know such life exists in Mono Lake.”
Now they know … and they know because they found something on this planet that can be weighed and measured, which is apparently what it takes.
A few things come to mind this morning … and, yes, I know I’m rambling, but I want to get this out before I settle into work, and rambling rants happen when there’s a lot of stuff rolling around in my head …
Which brings me to one thought …
I have a friend who’s a mulitple, so has many people living in one body, a situation that calls into question just how set-in-bone what the living part of us might be.
With a change of personalities in multiples, scars appear and disappear, burn marks do the same, as well as cysts! The multiple can change from being right-handed to being left-handed with ease and agility. Visual accuity can differ, so that some multiples have to carry two or three different pairs of glasses. One personality can be color blind and the other not. Even EYE COLOR can change!
I had a dream last night in which I was having a conversation with my son and my father, both of whom are, in present context, dead. Although I don’t recall much of it now, some of the images are clear. I know if I’d been hooked up to that whatitz thingy that checks brain activity it would have shown all sorts of stuff going on in my head. My question this morning is: Was my dream a result of a biochemical dance, or the other way around?
Could it be that we are surrounded by life forms we have no way of recognizing as such? Makes sense to me, but until a specimen is found on the bottom of Mono Lake … or energy materializes, sits down and gives a good accounting … we’ll keep running on the assumption that it’s all about being carbon-based.
There was a time a platypus was impossible, but … golly … turns out the little dudes are alive and well and happily doing the Monotremata thing down under, and even if we’ve never seen one, we don’t argue their existence. Could we someday be as accepting of a community of sentient invisible beings who might be hanging around us all right now?
I recognize I don’t have the background, knowledge or credentials that might allow me to grasp a lot of what is clearly over my head in the science, and I do understand why NASA folks are thrilled to their gills over the discovery of a “new life form”; it is a big deal and goes far to advance thinking. Good.
I do, however, sometimes tire of what smells like arrogance but is probably more closely related to a lack of imagination in presuming we are the standard by which all must be judged.
im not sure i have the brain capacity for understanding all that you wrote…but congrats on being freshly pressed all the same!
http://dearexgirlfriend.com/
Thank you! It’s fun being pressed …
All micro/macro oganisms will be destroyed or change to spiritual form on
May 21, 2011
JUDGMENT DAY
http://www.familyradio.com
Uh … okay. Can we talk again on the 22 May? I’ll be interested to hear thoughts …
What is life…are we life…is life, life? Hmmm…something to think about. And yes…I did steal that line from Saved by the Bell…”What is art…are we art…is art, art? I know most of you remember that 🙂
http://www.runtobefit.wordpress.com
Sorry … but I live on an island in the Indian Ocean and am a bit out of the loop …
but thanks for stopping by!
Shalom,I might not be as smart as you are in writing.I spend most of my time speaking to people in,youtube,but boy do I get cussed all day,and part of the night.See,I’m paralyzed,shoulders to toes.Anyway,I read your NASA comments on the living organizum,and thought ,you did a great job!
p.s. I’m a christian,and preach to the,youtubers,ha,ha,ha.So now you know why I get cussed at alot.
Willie,ur fan!
Neat, I was wondering.. can I use this on my website? I’ll totally accredit you and all, I just need some more info on there, and I’d liek to use this. message me when you get this please.
p.s I’m not spam, I’m a real person. So please message me back saying one way or another. =]
–
Sure. Just link to me …
Thanks.
LOVE IT! That is all I have to say. What wonderful food for thought. It’s too funny when the scientific community comes out with “exciting news” that has been obvious to a lot of people for a long time. It just speaks to the unfortunate way our society works: only certain professions are respected, certain people are called “authorities”…in order to become one of those “authorities” you need to jump through a lot of hoops and now because you have some certain letters or designations glued to your name you are deemed respectable enough to believe….and we tend to think that people who live out in the more wild and undeveloped areas of the earth are uneducated and “savage”. Isn’t it kind of funny that so many of those people who live in little huts with no technology seem to just instinctively know things which science eventually (and “excitingly”) begins to prove with all of their hoop-jumping? Sigh. It all seems so silly.
People in little huts … I like that image.
Thanks!
[…] A science is any discipline in which the fool of this generation can go beyond the point reached by the genius of the last generation. ~Max Gluckman Finally! Yes, the discovery has now been made that has expanded our version of what life is, and it's NASA, not an organization bent on biology, that stretched the limits of living. Seems there are, after all, life forms that don't conform to the accepted definition … go figure … and what an eye- … Read More […]
It’s funny to me that some people must literally “see” to believe. I do believe there is so much more to ‘life’ than what we know, what we see and even, at this point in time and maybe forever, what we can prove.
I’m not sure proving will end up being all that important, Christy. I strongly suspect that eventually we know it all … just not here, not now.
Thanks for stopping by …
There are lots of people and scientists that belive that extraterrestrial life exits without having ever seen it, however to act on those belifes like they were a fact can be reckless or even dangerous in many cases(medicin comes to mind as).
However this (NASA) is science and science is about knowing not beliving.
If science was based on belief nothing would get done, since it is possible to belive anything but not to explain/disprove it.
Just to clarify, i did not mean a belief in ET can be reckless in medecin, i meant to act on any belief without additional info in many circumstances is equal beeing reckless and or dangourus.
And sry for the spelling, not native language and no spelling software.
No problem with the spelling Ivar, and, yes, there is a difference. Sometimes, though, what we know turns out to have been merely a belief and other times belief turns out to be knowledge.
Thanks for the mental image of ET as a doctor! That made me laugh.
What a powerful last sentence — and I suspect you are right on the money there about a simple lack of imagination. This is why scientists would be well-served to surround themselves with non-sciency types to help them see things in different, non-sciency ways.
But that arrogance or lack of imagination keeps them surrounded by like-minded types who confirm their own filters. And this is dangerous (think Nazi Germany for a good example of what happens when like-minded types surround themselves by other like-minded types).
Interesting thoughts here — I’m fascinated to see what comes next!
One hopeful thought for me, though, Mikalee, is that scientists do have an individualistic take on their work, and even if that comes from arrogance it may serve to keep the field level.
Thanks much for reading, and for taking the time to comment. Much appreciated …
The multiple personality thing interests me the most, but I promise you one thing–if you come to Haiti, via my blog, you will cross an “event horizon” (reinventing the event horizon)beyond which all of life will look different. You will see life, in all its glorious and sometimes saddening forms, from a new perspective. At least I hope so. Happy Holidays from here in Haiti!
I will visit! Interestingly, I live on the other side of the globe, but here we speak close to the same Creole spoken in Haiti. I was in Paris a while back and had a Haitian taxi driver and we chatted away the whole trip! One difference, however, is that Indian Ocean Creole is a written language, so I can say to you: Merci pou ecrit la, dalon!
“I’ve spent no little time considering what ‘life’ is made of, and have come to the conclusion that it ain’t what we think it is. In fact, it seems to me that the part of us those six blocks stack up to may be the least of what we are.”
BRAVO – this blew me out of my snow boots this morning. I cannot agree with you more. Very interesting thoughts, we are so MUCH more then we appear to be, and each and every one of us matters. When you peel away the flesh and bone, in the end we are all spirit and energy – and that’s the stuff that science cannot really measure.
Congrats on being pressed.
http://yourlifesentence.wordpress.com/
Thank you. And, obviously, we are on the same page, Teri.
Spot on! So true, I wonder how much opportunity cost have been lost in terms of knowledge and other opportunities if not for these myopic scientist that make wrong findings. Scientist, (not all of them) sometimes play God.
The best part is, they are free to make mistakes.
“A science is any discipline in which the fool of this generation can go beyond the point reached by the genius of the last generation.” ~Max Gluckman
It seems Dr. Gluckman is in agreement …
Thanks for commenting!
I don’t know if we should jump to conclusions. Reports also stated that the bacterium that was forced to live off arsenic instead of phosphorous didn’t fare so well. It is astounding that the organism could replace the phosphorous in it’s DNA; however, the bacteria still retained some phosphorus and was quoted to be “clinging to every last phosphate molecule, and really living on the edge.”
I just don’t think we can conclude that other lifeforms exist, or that life is some unknown form of energy, on other planets with the given results. Should scientists expand their views on life? Of course! But not beyond reason. In science, rather logic, proofs are needed to give verification.
Conclusions? I have no conclusions, only more questions. I must, however, disagree in that it seems that we shouldn’t conclude that other life forms don’t exist. To assume what we know is what there is feels very limiting.
Thanks for stopping by!
Great post. Insightful writing.
I don’t know if you have ever seen Star Trek: The Motion Picture. There’s a scene in the film where the emissary of the all powerful V’ger states: “Carbon based units are not true life forms.”
Humans are not the universal standard for life in the Cosmos. Life in all its forms existed all before we came on the scene.
Happy holidays.
I live on an island in the middle of nowhere, so have not seen the film, but I love that thought so succinctly expressed. I may tattoo that somewhere!
Thanks!
very fascinating read. the world is a strange place, that is why i let NASA do all the work haha.
http://enjoibeing.wordpress.com/
Well, they do have the hardware!
Thanks.
[…] more: News from NASA: Life comes in other flavors. No kidding … Posted on 2010 年 12 月 03 日 by lanshang1460. This entry was posted in 未分类 and tagged […]
Excellent post! Thank you and congratulations on being freshly pressed!
“I do, however, sometimes tire of what smells like arrogance but is probably more closely related to a lack of imagination in presuming we are the standard by which all must be judged.”
My sentiments exactly. I do often wonder who we would be and how we could be if we allowed our imaginations, and possibility, instead of limitations to soar!
There was a time when science and philosophy were tied. It may be a worthy endeavor to reforge that bond.
Thank you for commenting!
Nice. Very nice indeed.
Thanks.
Really good post!
As all aware people know, we are more than what we can see and touch and feel. Weighed and measured as you so aptly wrote.
Its fun to read the materialists at NASA (Never A Straight Answer) now understand that among the billions and billions of stars the premises for life might not always be the same as here on earth.
Consciousness is everything.
http://fahrenheit666.wordpress.com/
Thank you. Consciousness IS everything. TaaaDaaa! I’ve been giving this thought since learning about that whole “particles need observers to do much” thing, chicken/egg/cart/horse thinking that shakes my brain like a rattle in the hand of Insane Demon Baby.
https://sandrahanksbenoiton.wordpress.com/2010/11/13/you-are-what-you-think-and-so-is-that-japanese-guy-who-eats-all-the-hot-dogs/
Article intéressant.
Merci.
I have to admit that the entire original issue (NASA’s views/reactions as presented by you) has taken me with surprise: Most people who have spent any time thinking on the subject tend to have more open minds—as do those who have read or watched a non-trivial amount of science fiction (and I would expect both the average scientist and the average NASA employee to exceed the population average here).
(Of course, a possibility is that some statements were intended mostly to impress the public or the politicians.)
An interesting example is astronomer Fred Hoyle’s 1957 work “The Black Cloud”, which focuses on the arrival of a sentient cloud to the solar system.
AI systems and robots of various kinds have been a staple for a very long time.
Other lines of though include e.g. the possibility that societies or ecological system can reach life/consciousness/intelligence in their own right, later also that computer networks might do the same.
BTW, what is with all the “we” and “our”? (E.g. in “has expanded our version of what life is”.) Be careful not to group your readers where they need not belong.
Thank you for reading, and for taking the time to comment and admonish.
I think it is amazing how science is evolving so fast and how we evolve ourselves by learning new things every day. Science is my favorite subject and to hear that a new organism has been is also amazing. I don’t like to hear when people say it is just a hoax to grab peoples attention. It is though like something out of a movie, and I think the line from Star Trek goes with what is happening in the world, “To go where no man has gone before”.
To BRAVELY go … and that may be the key!
Thank you for stopping by!
At last, arsenic is useful for something… and so is NASA.
I like your post, congrats on FP!
Hehehehe.
Thanks …
Useful for something …
Arsenic? Definitely!
NASA? Doubtful.
Hehehehe …
I think they are just thrilled to find a new life “form” and not so much new life.
I mean, for the longest time, it wasn’t that we didn’t imagine there could be life that existed in other forms, or using other premises, it’s just that we hadn’t actually interacted with it.
And science has to have a logical edge to it. Before we had the scientific method (that you have to be able to reproduce the same results multiple times to prove a theory, in short), people did the most insane things to each other and animals. Like they believed you let the evil spirits in your head out by drilling a hole in the skull, or that leeches drained the bad blood out. Or that infections were an example of unholy thoughts.
Of course, later on, when someone proved to the rest that “clean” medical implements prevent infection, therapy helped get rid of voices in your head, and drugs help get rid of sickness, people stopped doing crazy things. Most of humanity lives in a weird mesh of faith and empirical proof, so in terms of science, seeing is believing.
And science is always capable of moving those goal posts. That’s the cool stuff about it.
Yes. It’s the best part of scientific theory.
I think the reason why a lot of people are misinterpretting NASA’s enthusiasm about this is not due to lack of imagination or a cold approach to science. Maybe some scientists are that way, but not these guys.
What’s going on is that forever the old guard was “Look, life is carbon, phosphorus, nitrogen, oxygen, sulfur and hydrogen*,” and since they had been saying it for so long, it compelled people to try and crack that concrete theory.
Along comes a few biochemists who have been searching for and trying to create life that doesn’t need all those things to be considered life. A new life “form” so to speak. And it takes FOREVER. Suddenly, they find this new life “form” – one that uses arsenic!
So it’s all “WE DID IT! WE FOUND ANOTHER LIFE FORM!” and party hats and balloons and cake. And the rest of the world is like, “Oooooookaaaaaay. Neeeerrrdssss!” It’s not really they lacked imagination as much as they wanted to show off that life doesn’t have to rely on the carbon-based life “form.”
—————
* For the longest time, hydrogen wasn’t really considered a special block of DNA or carbon-based life forms. Hydrogen was usually found in just about anything, so it was assumed that hydrogen would be in just about everything. It’s like being redundant – “Hey there’s hydrogen in this,” “Yes, yes, there’s hydrogen in EVERYTHING, Roy.”
I don’t think the world is doing that “Okay. Nerds.” thing at all. Seems as if a good portion is happy to have something to read about that doesn’t have the word “leaks” involved, and the discovery certainly has prompted discussion. Sure, much of it may not be science-y, but philosophical debate and scientific achievement have always gone hand-in-hand, and should.
Hydrogen redundancy … that’s funny!
Thanks.
Really? You think you’re smarter than Nasa? Were you just sitting on this information, waiting for them to catch up?
Yeah, right … that’s what this is about. Reading all the words might make things a bit clearer.
Great post!
🙂
lol…I love how you answer your own thoughts with quotes. I might have to use that if it’s alright with you.
Be my guest … or theirs … or whatever …
I already phoned home…what’s the big fuss all about? Ha Ha
Nice post and congrats for being Freshly Pressed!
Blessings,
Ava
xox
Sheesh … you sound like my mom!
Thanks!
Sandra
OK, that was fun. And you’re not wrong. But the tone of comments above is starting to bother me, so please consider this — It is the rational accumulation of observable facts that creates what we know as science. And only through those observable facts can we come the place where we are both enlightened (compared to prior generations) and surprised (by our own ignorance).
Sure, finding an arsenic based life form is amazing, fun, cool… and might be “intuitive” or even obvious to a highly spiritual and imaginative person. But without the “lack of imagination in presuming we are the standard by which all must be judged” we might have no judgement, no fact building, no science and no learning. Taken too far to the extreme, a bias against the observable truth would create a society without observation.
It’s not the best solution, but it is the best we’ve got.
Agreed. But as Emerson said: Men love to wonder, and that is the seed of science.
My concern is partly about an academic turn from wonder, for jettisoning what John Dewey referred to as the “audacity of imagination” in favor of the “observable facts”. And, no, I am not a scientist … I’m a poet … so, there you have it.
Thanks much for the thought fodder.
S
Thought provoking…I’ve been thinking about this for years. I know for a “fact” that there is a spiritual realm and that these spirits communicate with us if we’re able to allow ourselves to be used by them…so doing an egoectomy is the first step…then just sit quietly…go deep (practice meditation) and “they” will speak to you…not in voices…but you will notice ideas floating into your awareness that you wil over time come to realize did not originate in your own mind. Spend 20-30 minutes per day writing down what comes to you without analyzing it or censoring it. Look back after 6 months and you will have your proof…no one else will believe you (unless they’ve experienced it) but you will have your proof…invite people (spirits) in that you’ve known to have been good people in their lives…I like musicians and poets…I know I sound like a crazy person and have had to accept that I am (by definition) but having access to the eternal realm becomes far more important than worrying about what literal/linear thinking people think….peace.
I know the book, I’ve seen the chapter and we’re close to the same page …
Thanks so much for the poetic insight! You made me feel warm on this cold, dismal day.
This is all a miracle, isn’t it?
It’s been a hot one here, but that’s the tropics for ya!
As for miracles, Einstein had a way with words: There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle.
More on topic, however, these words from him: It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education.
You miss the “evidence” in “scientific evidence”. It’s nice to assume that all possible lifeforms are possible, but if you want to do research, you have to go by the facts you know and expand from there – which is exactly what the guys at NASA did and which led to this discovery.
What you propose is assuming everything and getting nowhere.
Evil
http://www.evilcyber.com/
I’m not actually proposing anything other than open minds and a poet’s take.
And, by the way, the ‘guy’ at NASA who found these new life forms is a woman.
Thank you for dropping by and taking the time to share your thoughts.
“…presuming we are the standard by which all must be judged.”
Profound statement; it can apply to all parts of our lives. Your post is something I needed to read right about now. Thank you.
And thank you, Nanola.
The scientist is a presumptuous beast. I have no doubt that, as you say, there are life forms all around us that we cannot and do not recognize as such. I believe they utterly escape our attention precisely because we’re looking with our eyes and a narrowly formed worldview. Alas, I am not a scientist, but a poet, a mystic and a soul searcher.
As Socrates said, “Science is nothing but perception.” I could write a dissertation on the limits of perception, but suffice it to say that perception is designed to filter out more than it is designed to let into one’s awareness. This is why science, in my opinion, has always, can and will always only go so far and, therefore, those who rely on the scientific method can only advance towards a minuscule, finite and distorted understanding and “knowledge” regarding reality.
Now, what would life be like, what would it be composed of if not something we can smell, touch, see, hear and taste? So, so much more. I am eternally grateful for that. Great post and congrats on being “Freshly Pressed”. 🙂
Thanks for the congrats and the comment.
I’m guessing we know what life would be like under the circumstance you describe, since it is. Grateful here, too!
This was an excellent blog article/entry!
My degree is in Biology/Zoology/Evolutionary Biology and this topic comes up often with my classmates and now with my professional colleagues…We can’t just assume that life forms on Earth are the be-all, end-all of what constitutes “life.” I mean…come on, the universe is HUGE! There’s just no way that this, the structure and functions of our (Earth’s) cells, our organs, our bodies, is the only way.
I think the concept of evolutionary processes being indeterminate gets lost, and clouds our ability to fathom anything else. Life here didn’t have to end up precisely the way it is, it’s just what worked with what conditions were available.
So little green men with body plans, eyes, and technology that looks even remotely similar to what we have on Earth…are most likely out of the question.
The universe IS huge, and perhaps not the only one.
That “little green men” thing says a bit about lack of imagination in the past, heh? If that was as weird an image that could be conjured it seems safe to assume that we’re the tree and “Space Apples” weren’t going to fall from it. We’re getting better at thinking up truly strange shit now, at least.
Thanks for popping by!
My goodness. Talk about NASA and all science breaks loose. I have to say, as a multiple, I don’t have all those biological changes, however, one thing that is true, I am much younger than my body’s age. There are definite differences in eating habits and tastes as well.
Bri!
Would like to discuss this more with you when you have some time, Buddy!
S
Well of course there is other life it was just a matter of time…
kudos to you & your ideas. I love the description by one of your readers about the meditation…I know exactly what they mean…haven’t gotten ideas yet, but have been in touch!
evelyngarone.com
Meditation can be an effective tool for freeing up parts otherwise bogged down by biology, ’tis true. Plus, it’s good for the biological bits, too.
Thank you.
First off, you are mistaken in thinking that “folks have actually been running on the assumption that all life everywhere must be made of the same stuff that came up with us”. If you’d ever watched Carl Sagan’s magnificent series “Cosmos” from the early 1980s, that would have been pretty clear. The idea that life forms may not be based on just the same elements we have here on Earth in abundance is not at all new, but it is not easy to measure or develop experiments for.
All I would ask is that you not lump all scientists with the same broad brush of arrogance or close-mindedness. You find that kind of negative characteristic in any field or discipline, whether it’s science, economics, art, or poetry. There are plenty of open minds in the scientific community, and having spent a lot of time there myself I can attest that the slow, methodological, and sometimes bumpy approach that you seem to disdain here is in fact the best way of making real progress.
For every “common sense” idea that was regarded as universal truth, there were probably 25 of them that were eventually found to be untrue. Scientists like Galileo and Kepler upset very “common sense” notions of how the solar system works by doing very careful, methodical work. If they’d simply asserted things that were true but had no data to back it up, science (and culture for that matter) would have been set back or at least delayed all that much longer.
Lumping is not my thing, Eric, and I have great respect and admiration for the scientific mind. This was a post of questions, not condemnation, and philosophical ponderings.
Disdain? Hardly. Sagan, Darwin, Hawking, Einstein, Galileo, Kepler, and on and on …revered heroes. Minds such as theirs strike awe, and I am always grateful when I brush up against ideas I can even begin to wrap my head around in some small way.
Thanks for the comment.
It seems like science is being widely misunderstood here. First, the “lack of imagination” you so loudly decry is your deficiency, not theirs. They wouldn’t have found this new organism if they didn’t have the imagination to go looking for it.
You used the expression “So who’s to say that…” such and such isn’t true. Scientists constantly think that way, that’s how they come up with theories that they then work to prove or disprove. To imagine a new kind of life form is science fiction. To seek for it in the real world is science. To actually find it is to expand the boundaries of what we KNOW to be real. Is it arrogance to realize that there is a difference between what we know and what we imagine?
We once imagined that lightning was caused by Zeus. Fun image, very poetic, but that way of looking at lightning didn’t help us protect our buildings from damage. Science now tells us what lightning actually is, and based on that understanding we can install lightning rods on tall structures to protect them. When you want poetic fun, stay with the myths. When you want real-world results, you need real-world knowledge, which is what science seeks.
You may have noticed, Matt, that this is not a scientific blog, but one of a more poetic and philosophical leaning, and I was clear in pointing out my shortcomings.
Thanks for stopping by and leaving your thoughtful comment.
Color me unimpressed. An interesting story and scientific discovery, yes. But mind-shattering? Nope.
When scientists get a sentient response from “outer space”, then they’ll have my full attention.
And even then I’ll have my doubts and concerns. People looking for extraterrestrial “life” may just find it… only they might not like what they see. I believe it will be a con-job of the millenia, one pulled on every scientist, secularist and believer in evolution and extraterrestrial life.
Thank you for your comment.
Hmmm… My children and I saw this on the nightly news last night. As usual, when anything of this nature is on, we are all intensely focused on what is being said. It’s funny to me, what you say about being “surrounded by life forms we have no way of recognizing as such?” Not funny in a “ha, ha” way, but in an interesting, “hmmm…” way.
Both my children are older teenagers, one in her second year of college (who’s major started out as Bio-Chemistry), and my son will be starting college next fall. They both are highly intelligent and have always been interested in science and will talk between themselves in ways that sometimes go way over my head! We have had talks about things of this nature before and just recently discussed our individual “experiences.”
All I can say is, I believe there ARE “things” among us that our human minds can’t comprehend always because of how we have been taught to believe while growing up. I learned a long time ago that, although understanding is a deep-seated need as a human being that we yearn for in order to comprehend and be comprehended. But…sometimes, it just comes down to acceptance and experiencing the “moment/thing/feeling/whatever.”
And, I am in total aggrement with the statement you made somewhere above about getting the understanding in another place, at another time. I have believed that from an experience I had when I was a young girl.
Great post! I will show it to my children and I am sure we will have a great discussion about the whole topic!
I’d love to be sitting around the table with you for that one, rtcrita!
Thank you.
Hey Sandra,
Very interesting post. Sounds like you are totally on my wave of thinking with this. I wrote an article for my former college paper about life being all around us but we probably just can’t see it – same idea. I say, of course that is possible. We would be ignorant to consider otherwise, especially with all that has been discovered over the years. Love your ending too. If only scientists “did” have that unended imagination you spoke of, maybe they would find so many more discoveries – and in places most would never have thought to look. Thanks for the cool thoughts 🙂
It’s not easy to look ‘outside the box’, even for people trained to do exactly that. Science folk are human, too, and as Einstein said: It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education.
Thank you for taking the time to post your comment!
A great post full of original ideas. congrats on being freshly pressed.
http://gotojameson.wordpress.com
I have also written something on the arsenic eating bacteria. I thought this might be of interest but a totally different perspective though.
check it out http://gotojamesonblog.wordpress.com/2010/12/03/arsenic-dna/
Cool! Thanks.
Your thoughtfulness might inspire the next phase of NASA research. Apparently the current effort was inspired by a philosopher’s ‘gedanken thought experiment’ in 2006.
http://thedailybite.wordpress.com/2010/12/02/nasa-usgs-research-redefines-the-rules-of-life-showing-that-alien-biochemistries-are-possible/
Maybe instead of being left behind, the field of biology will have to absorb the field of physics someday in the future.
Thanks for the comment and the link.
Biophysics is WAY cool!
Most Earth scientists are way too Earth-centric. Not surprisingly, scientists from planet Ogle-TR-56b are way too Ogle-TR-56b-centric.
Fancinating stuff about multiples and the possiblity of unrecognizable life forms related to people. The mind extrapolates! Well done. 🙂
Thank you. What do you call folks from Ogle-TR-56b for short?
Oglers. 😉
there is no objectivity in life. life is what we make of it. it’s also everything that makes up who you are. I’m of the opinion that life is made up of plenty of things that we can’t see. and never will.
Cogito ergo sum.
Thank you for posting.
Congrats on your FP status!
Things like this make my brain hurt. Like trying to imagine where outer space ends…or doesn’t….up is down….down is up……what’s next?
Thanks for giving me an excuse to have a glass of wine.
BTW…did you take the “ghost picture”?
Cheers!
Excuse me while I step out to take a deep breath and remind myself I am still alive! Thanks for the insight from a quite spot of observation. Appreciate good writing when I read it.
Much thanks …
La “arrogancia” de creer que todo puede ser medido, de creernos únicos en el ínfimo sistema que conocemos, el sentirnos dueños de las grandes respuestas, eso nos condiciona.
Hay gente que fué condenada por afirmar que la tierra era redonda, por decir que giraba alrededor del sol, por dar por cierto que los animales son menosinteligentes que los humanos, que los aborígenes y sus conocimientos de las plantas y hierbas eran sabios.
En sintesis: Si partimos de un concepto egoista y equivocado, siempre terminaremos en un final mentiroso.
Mucho gracias por el comentario. Tenemos tanto más a aprender.
[…] up thy stethoscope and lead the […]
Fantastic article Sandra. I love your brutal honesty and the fact that you, unlike NASA are far from ignorant and stupid.
Would you consider bringing your humorous down to earth opinions to an article on life after alien disclosure ? http://lifeafteraliendisclosure.wordpress.com/ . I kid you not !!!
Thanks for pulling NASA to pieces. A true scientist indeed !
Very interesting, garlick. And, sure! I’ll work on that this weekend. Looks like interesting reading there!
Hi Sandra : Thanks for your offer – I really appreciate it. The blog is just starting up and I’m busy sending letters to folks to try and generate interest – so you’ll likely be the first to respond. I think responses from a diverse representation of humanity is what’s important. So thanks heaps. …
I suspect you’ll hear a lot more about disclosure in 2011.
Have a lovely weekend, Bright.
We’ll see what I manage to get out to you, Bright.
By the way, I edited your comment a bit. Some topics are off limits here, believe it or not!
Good weekend to you, too.
S
Hi Sandra : Yes I realised after posting that comment that I might have overstepped the mark. And I’m afraid, up until a few days ago I didn’t know about your close relative – It just so happened that TH was a great inspiration when I was recovering from a cancer a few years back and I thought – what the heck, I’ll ask. But no problems – I can respect healthy boundaries.
Thanks for your alien post – your wit and wisdom are very much my cup of tea !
Ooooh … I like that ‘cup of tea’ thing … makes me feel all warm and brown. Or maybe that’s an island thing … 😉
Wonderful news. At last we are getting closer to what life is all about.
Have a look at http://neuo.wordpress.com/
Thanks for the link.
Hi Sandra. I’ve taken the liberty of linking to your post in a poem. Welcome to my project. 🙂
Where, Brad? Can you send the link, please?
Sure thing!
http://maekitso.wordpress.com/2010/12/04/some-other-bird/
It’s the latest post in a series exploring the question ‘does poetry divide people?’ You are under the stethoscope 🙂
Thanks!
Wow, and people are actually surprised to discover that things don’t always conform to our definitions of “what is?”
People can also be surprised by peanut butter sticking to the roof of their mouth …
Thanks for reading.
bruises on multiples appear and disappear?
i think this is false. correct me if i’m wrong.
There’s a link for attribution for the quote, ed. That seemed a bit ‘out there’ to me, too, but there seems to be good documentation of differences in visual acuity and other medical issues, such as diabetes.
Science today contribute a lot to improve our daily living. We can see that in different field. Through science things became possible right? for instance two couple can’t bear a child, through IVF they can have it! IVF or in vitro fertilization is one of the way to bear a child, again this is a product of science- which the sperm fertilize the egg cell outside of the woman’s body.
I am no critic of science and fully appreciate the benefits we enjoy resulting from the work of dedicated people in many fields.
Thanks for commenting.
[…] Here’s a very informational article that wordpress has given. News from NASA: Life comes in other flavors… No kidding. […]
[…] =) A science is any discipline in which the fool of this generation can go beyond the point reached by the genius of the last generation. ~Max Gluckman Finally! Yes, the discovery has now been made that has expanded our version of what life is, and it’s NASA, not an organization bent on biology, that stretched the limits of living. Seems there are, after all, life forms that don’t conform to the accepted definition … go figure … and what an eye- … Read More […]
It is like in the “old days” when it was believed we were the only intelligent beings on earth and then shock, horror, amazement (or dismay, depending on your perspective) behavioural scientists finally got around to accepting that animals have intelligence. It may not be the same as ours – and looking at the state of the planet right now, that in itself may be a bloody good thing!
We really do not understand how most animals communicate, although clearly they do and humans love to think they have worked it out.
The platypus, interestingly, is much smaller than you possibly think. I’ll admit to being surprised when I first saw one. Cute little things though!
Stunning post, Sandra. Loved it. I’ve always thought that earth is very unlikely to be the only inhabited planet in the universe. The thought seems very much as if we are totally up ourselves, actually.
Thanks, Robin.
I had exactly the same reaction when I first saw a playtpus!
And I was not alone when standing at the Tasmanian Devil exhibit at Taronga Zoo in Sydney in having the thought cross my mind: They don’t look anything like that guy in the Bugs Bunny cartoons.
I had to laugh at how many Aussie’s voiced the same idea!
As always, thanks for reading, and for posting the comment.
Congrats on FP!
And I’ll admit, I had a giggle when I read about this matter on one of the news websites. I often spend a lot of time rolling my eyes when I watch or read something on TV and the ‘Life cannot exist here because (insert reason).’ Why? Because science wouldn’t let us recognize it even if it something is there?
´
So, I definitely was tickled by this news of the arsenic bacterium. I also loved your insights into it!
I’ve often wondered if the discovery that some mollusks like the octopus and various insects use hemocyanin for oxygen transport through the blood stream instead of hemoglobin threw scientists into a tizzy?
Thank you, terii.
Interesting thought on what might have occurred with the hemocyanin discovery. Fox News might have had a field day with that, too!
I absolutely agree with you, and have had the same thoughts many times – how can we be so arrogant to assume that we know what life is? Just because we happen to be carbon-based doesn’t mean that other sentient beings need to be. There is so much that we don’t know, yet we as a species seem to have this inordinate desire (at least portrayed in the media – don’t even get me started there!) to claim some sort of higher status, and with that to claim some sort of authority over what goes on around us and in nature. I wrote about something slightly similar a few months ago: A Lesson in Humility @ ovenkitty.
Yes, this is a topic that gets me pondering often, too.
Thanks for the comment, and for the link!
Funny thing is, NASA have gone pretty far out in space looking for this. And it was in bloody California. Lacking funds as they do, they’re like a kid with no toys. They are forced to be creative in the hood and eventually they find magic in everyday life.
I don’t think they’re arrogant in the least. Quite the opposite. Oje could argue that NASA were arrogant when they reached the moon, which proved to be a pointless penis-size contest with the USSR. This thingy they’ve discovered now might be greater. Who knows, it looks like the real thing to me, not just fireworks.
It is amazing what can be found in your own back yard, and when talking space Earth is our back yard. A broad question could be: How much do we not know about here?
It seems science is sometimes arrogant, at least in the ways information is disseminated. Throughout history claims have been made as fact that turned out to be completely wrong and impact was made erroneously. Yes, more science is what disproved Einstein’s ‘static universe theory’, the concept of humans born as tabula rasa and phrenology didn’t last long, but they all had their day.
Truly great scientific minds embrace their limitations and are thrilled when things are shown to be wrong but, like not all musicians can play from the heart, some scientists may be more interested in accolades than discovery. It’s a competitive field, science, and not for sissies. Medicine, for example, sees constant shifts in its science, sometimes causing real problems, but it takes balls to tinker at all and a faith in oneself not often questioned. (I still can’t figure out if eggs are supposed to a healthy source of protein I should offer my kids or ticking time bombs.)
Reminded of a story:
A huge gathering of scientists converge and after a day of heavy stuff meet up for cocktails. An archeologist and astronomer sit in one corner and talk about archeology and astronomy. A biochemist and an geologist are in another talking about biochemistry and geology. Two astrophysicists stand around and talk about girls.
The point being that from the middle it can be difficult to see outside the box.
Brilliant. As someone with both christian and scientific backgrounds i have been increasingly annoyed by a certain brand of atheist that insists that science has all the answers and ridicules religion because of it.
There are a few laws and rules that are incontrovertible and many theories that make incredible sense in the light of what we know. Science is a beautiful tool but anyone who’s read more than one scientific paper on a given subject knows that there are as many denominations and contradictions in science as there are in religion so it makes no sense to make hard and fast claims when the true spirit of science actually reveals more of what we don’t know with every discovery.
Bravo to the spirit of discoveryand open minds
Thanks for the comment, David.
[…] found this really interesting and quite amusing post couple of minutes ago. for those of you interested in life, generally. + fell in love with lcd […]
I have been wondering about this too.
Humans’ perception is very limited. What we see, hear, feel are very limited.
What if other life forms are outside our capacity to see, hear, or feel? What if they’re here, manipulating each of us and we just don’t know it?
Such things may look like a product of a mind that doesn’t have anything better to think about. But hey, you don’t know. For humans’ perception is very limited.
Our biology only allows so much. We’re clunky, dense beings in some ways.
Thanks for the comment!
this is quite interesting!
Thank you for this post!
I’ve spent years trying to understand why so many are obsessed with ‘visitors’ from space who all seem to be upright-locomoting with the standard appendages and travel in really fast vehicles. (Apparently it’s their technology we’re after.) We’re desperate to communicate the ‘others’ and have next to no real interest in communicating with one another to say nothing of rekindling our relationship with the trees.
“I talk to the trees, but they don’t listen to me … ”
Thanks for bringing that one back to mind!
As far as talking to one another, just look at the furor over words going on right now FFS!
https://sandrahanksbenoiton.wordpress.com/2010/12/04/oooh-look-something-shiny-its-julian-assange-again/
Thanks for reading, and for taking a bit of your time to post a comment …
S
Oh man. I’ve always thought it really silly that we only consider things to be alive if they are similar to us. Amazingly enough there is so much out there that is likely just as oblivious to us as we are to it. I’ve always thought it so obvious that what it takes to support our life is NOT the same thing that it takes to support other life!
Silly Humans. What do we know anyway?
Very little.
And, you know, in many ways that’s okay. I often wonder how much we need to know … how much we are supposed to actually KNOW. Information … yes, that can be a good thing, but has understanding the world is round, that we revolve around the sun and rotate on our axis achieved world peace, put an end to greed and cruelty? Sure, we can fly and inoculate our kids and accept that Stephen Hawking has a grasp of that ‘black hole’ thing, but we’re still killing and hating, dividing and conquering. Slavery still happens and we poison our own planet. Silly humans …
i think of phosphorus is replaced, so probably carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, phosphorus and sulfur are still needed. Plus arsenic is capable if the same number of bonds are phosphorous thus the structure might still be almost identical?
Huh? Okay …
[…] A science is any discipline in which the fool of this generation can go beyond the point reached by the genius of the last generation. ~Max Gluckman Finally! Yes, the discovery has now been made that has expanded our version of what life is, and it's NASA, not an organization bent on biology, that stretched the limits of living. Seems there are, after all, life forms that don't conform to the accepted definition … go figure … and what an eye- … Read More […]
Although I am thrilled to see people really thinking about this new life form (and the philosophical implications and debate around it) I think a few things need to be said.
First off, I think most scientists, especially scientists that work in molecular biology and astronomical exploration, do not think that aliens are going to be little green men who like humans. The idea that life can be supported by other mixes is heavily supported (such as silicon based life). This new life form was probably not so much as surprise to those scientists, (although maybe they were not expecting arsenic) so much as it was finally substantial proof that life can take different forms. NASA has actually been studying molecular life forms for a very long time. Technically speaking, they have already found alien bacterial life on Earth (look up ALH84001 for instance).
So many people are saying that you do not necessarily need to prove something for it to be true. Of course this is true, things are going to exist regardless of whether or not we know it. However, there are an incredible amount of ignorant people in this world, that still will not understand what this new life form suggests and proves. Obviously this is steaming from a lot of religious ideology and faith. I have nothing against religion, and that is not a fight I am looking to make. But when people use their faith and religion to try and discredit scientific discovery, then I think that they are using their faith as an excuse to ignore new knowledge available. Why can’t people have faith in their religions and be able to accept science?
Lastly, I read in the comments about how people that live in (what I assume they meant as) Africa are viewed. Although the “noble savage” ideal is kind of better than thinking of those people as wrong or backwards, one should remember that stereotypes are still stereotypes. (Yeah I know unrelated to this discussion, but as an anthropologist it just rubbed me the wrong way).
With you on the religion-vs-science bit and the unfortunate numbers of the ignorant, but you lost me on the Africa thing. I live in Africa and apparently missed something in all these comments. Can you point me toward your ref?
Thanks much for the input.
Joy:
“and we tend to think that people who live out in the more wild and undeveloped areas of the earth are uneducated and “savage”. Isn’t it kind of funny that so many of those people who live in little huts with no technology seem to just instinctively know things which science eventually (and “excitingly”) begins to prove with all of their hoop-jumping?”
(but like I said, that really didn’t relate to this discussion.. sometimes I can’t help but ramble)
That was in a comment left, then? It seems the point wasn’t negative, though. Am I missing something?
(I like a good ramble ..)
I think it is kind of scary actually! To me, it screams life on other planets or worse:
http://www.bofads.com/stories/nasasecrets.htm
That’s scary? I rather like the idea, myself ….
Is there any place or web where I could read the entire NASA declarations? It could be so interesting and will allow many people to extract their own conclusions.
I think life may exist in many ways, not only those we know at the present time. Maybe cells based in silicon or germanium rather than carbon, or maybe energy-based life.
Your article is so interesting, congratulations for the excellent job!
I apologize for my english, it is not my mother language.
Truth will set us free.
Best regards!
I assume NASA will have the information available, but being that I’m not a science person I’ve not investigated those options.
Thank you so much for reading and posting your comment, and your English is more than fine.
The truth will either set us free or give some idea of what our prison looks like.
Best to you, too.
Well I’ll be, Mono Lake isn’t just a pretty place anymore! Congrats on being freshly pressed.
Thank you …
This is nothing new, there’s already been a few documentaries about how this is a possibility.
New … how can anything be new?
Maybe nothing new, but it grabbed headlines and my attention for a while …
The more we discover, the more we realize that we really don’t know anything!
I like the idea we don’t know anything.
I LOVE how you use this information to challenge what might or might not be considered mental illness in science and in our society. Who’s to say really what the physical norm is, be it science or our dreams. It’s really all a moving target anyway, isn’t it?
Thank you. Motion is good …
Congratulations on making Freshly Pressed! There’s a few things to consider regarding what NASA “discovered.” We’ve known about the bacteria in Mono Lake for some time. They’ve adapted to living in a brutally high pH environment with high levels of arsenic.
What scientists did is take these bacteria to the lab and slowly jack up the concentration of arsenic in their environment, replacing the phosphate. The cell growth slowed dramatically, but they didn’t die. They kept on truckin’.
What’s most interesting is that the bacteria incorporated the arsenic into some of the basic chemical functions within the cell that would normally be done by phosphate.
So while it’s a pretty cool story, it’s not a discovery of a new life form. It does tell us that life is persistent, adaptable and tough.
Interesting … veddy interesting …
Above, I see a number of comments that seem to take a very odd view of scientists or science, e.g. in implying that scientists would be narrow-minded, that science would miss the big truths or be too sure of it self, or similar.
This attitude shows great prejudice and a lack of insight, possibly influenced by unfortunate stereotypes in movies: Yes, there are many scientists who are narrow-minded (or otherwise deficient); as a group, however, they are noticeably less so than the rest of the population. Certainly, creativity, open-mindedness, and imagination are among the most important attributes in a good scientist.
Even good scientists labour under the restriction of being human, but they are better than average, not worse. (With regard to the above and related areas.)
As an aside: If some of you believe in ESP, alien visitors, whatnot, and you regularly find scientists scoffing at you, then consider that this is not a sign of their being narrow-minded, but of their not being willing to accept far-going claims without proof—and this the more so, the more the proponents try to duck investigation/testing and to explain away the lack of proof.
Science is wonderful and scientists are, to a great extent, cooler than the run-of-the-mill: highly educated, dedicated, focused. And, yes, human.
Thanks for you thoughtful comment.
Many many interesting comments here but I want to take note of this one, especially this, “Yes, there are many scientists who are narrow-minded (or otherwise deficient); as a group, however, they are noticeably less so than the rest of the population. Certainly, creativity, open-mindedness, and imagination are among the most important attributes in a good scientist..”
Great post Sandra!
Thanks, Campbell …
Sandra, Love this piece and your take on ‘other’ life forms. Now it is going to get really interesting, when more and more people ( is that wishful thinking?) acknowledge the kinds of beings shown in the photo you posted with the article. I acknowledge them. I don’t need scientific proof for me to believe in them, but it sure does help to open the minds of the mainstream population to that which is beyond the old boxes of our reality. I work with energy and talk all the time about the unseen realms. Most folks just look at me oddly and wonder ‘why bother?’ I bother because I believe that realm is as real as the computers we are each using, as real as our bodies and our homes. I believe that energetic world influences us every moment of every day. I find it very useful to pay attention and get whatever messages I can from that immaterial reality. best, Elaine
Thanks, Elaine.
To quote that wise sage, Yoda: Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter.
Wow. To think there’s actually life out there that’s been beyond our understanding all this time… amazing… purely and utterly amazing…
Out there? Mono Lake and maybe sitting right next to me … okay, maybe that last bit is ‘out there’ …
Thanks for popping by!
Nice to meet a feathered friend. I’m kinda green to wordpress and just happened upon your article because I was drawn to the image. If everyone could see the Truth of who-we-really-are…things like this would no longer be surprising to any of us. A most enjoyable read. Thank you for putting your words out there to push others beyond the brink of current understanding. Wake up sleepy world, wake up…
Thanks for stopping in.
Personally, I rather like surprises and since seeing all of the truth won’t happen, surprises will, and that’s more than okay.
Good luck with your WP blog. I like this platform mucho!
I read your post…I guess I’d better stay with wedding stuff…lol…little bit over my head.
And wedding stuff is a bit over mine. 😉
Thanks!
definitely a good read! it’s funny how science is so closed minded. and congrats on the fresh pressed cover! 🙂
Thank you, Bernadette …
Nice post 😀
Kudos on being Freshly Pressed..
I believe if “we” humans ever really found “intelligent life” out there who responded to our exploration, we’d be scared sh#*less! LOL
achilliad.wordpress.com
Yeah … we’d be looking for their cookbook, I’m guessing.
Thanks!
When I was younger, I would ask my science teachers why they expected to see life on another planet that looks just like ours. I thought, “why can’t they be different and based on a different set of atoms entirely?”. I swear, the looks they gave me were priceless (I guess they thought I was insane).
I’m really glad that they did not discourage me from pursuing a degree in the science field, and happy to hear that there are people (scientists) that think like me.
Great post! Keep up the good work!
I remember when E.T. came out thinking, that’s as weird as they could come up with? Big head and long fingers … hm. Seemed one of the most ‘shocking’ things about Spielberg’s alien beings was that they were naked. Sheesh …
Thanks!
“Was my dream a result of a biochemical dance, or the other way around?”
I’m so glad that other people are asking this question. I thought I was alone (but in a world so full of life, I’m beginning to realize how unlikely it is that my thoughts are unoriginal).
Science is the explanation of things, and we cannot explain things that we do not yet know of. That’s why we have imagination. And we can’t be so bent on science that we forget the vitality of imagination.
Thank you for posting this. 😀
-Fox
“Science is the explanation of things, and we cannot explain things that we do not yet know of. That’s why we have imagination. And we can’t be so bent on science that we forget the vitality of imagination.” EXACTLY!
Thank you …
cool article…loved the fact about supporting life’s growth in unpredictable environment 🙂 shared ur view in my blog too…
i mean shared a link 2 ur blog too…. :)… once again cool article…loved it.
Thank you. Can you please send me the link?
Interesting to know that NASA has finally caught up with less ‘advanced’ societies that take it for granted we are not alone in this world, let alone the universe. Loved your article…:)
[…] News from NASA: Life comes in other flavors. No kidding … (via Paradise Preoccupied) Posted on 5 December, 2010 by Jarle Petterson A science is any discipline in which the fool of this generation can go beyond the point reached by the genius of the last generation. ~Max Gluckman Finally! Yes, the discovery has now been made that has expanded our version of what life is, and it’s NASA, not an organization bent on biology, that stretched the limits of living. Seems there are, after all, life forms that don’t conform to the accepted definition … go figure … and what an eye- … Read More […]
coooool blog! you have another fan!
Thanks, Eben, and for the fb friend request, too.
What a thought provoking post and discussion.
So, there are organisms which can digest Arsenic. That means they have defied ‘Human Death”. That means Life for one can mean Death for other and vice versa. Why not try to define Death instead of Life then?
Define death … hm … there’s something to think about.
Thanks!
sure here’s the link: http://009ever.wordpress.com/2010/12/05/news-from-nasa-life-comes-in-other-flavors-no-kidding/
and theres no need for thank you…ur article was really superb… 🙂
Well … I’m thanking you anyway … again!
waaoooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwww………………toppppp
They had that ‘NASA’ article in my local paper, but without any real details of any kind! (unless it was continued on another page, but I saw no mention of that)
It quoted the stuff about “expanding the definition of life”, but it never mentioned anything about that microorganism or anything…
It made me quite frustrated and angry, because it was just a bunch of BS about nothing!
Glad your blog post had better quotes, makes more sense now.
I found the stuff about the multiple personalities interesting – I clicked on the link to read all of it.
That is just… amazing.
But it makes me think of hysterical pregnancies, in that the mind thinks something to be true, and tricks your body and changes it.
You think you’re pregnant, so you have morning sickness, cravings.
In a similar-ish way, you don’t remember being burnt, so you’re not? or, maybe a better example, you think you have bad eyesight so you do?
All good thought fodder …
Thanks for reading and posting.
Sandra,
I’ve been saying the same thing for my whole life! How egotistical of is to think we are the “be all end all”.
Nice to see you and the subject freshly pressed. You did a really nice job stating the obvious.
Sarah
Thanks, Sarah …
Every SINGLE thing has two forces acting on it. You and every single human or creature can only exist on planet earth or some other planet because of two forces. God and the devil – One sun for the universe can only exist because of all the planets (solar systems) revolving around the sun. Life cannot exist without death. YOU (the single spirit) can only exist with a body – That is why you and me and every living creature are on planet earth.
What a very small universe it is, then …
This post is awesome! 🙂 Im officially glad I clicked on it. 😉
And I’m officially glad you read and commented!
Great post…very deserving of a FP status!
Gracias. Merci. Thanks.
I very much enjoyed this “rant” and found it very insightful and in the realm of a lot that floats around in my head. Thank you!
And thank you. Your realm and mine apparently jive. Cool!
that was kind of dark and heavy but I enjoyed the read. congrats on being freshly pressed.
Jen
http://www.foundobjectbeachart.wordpress.com
Dark? Hm. And here I thought I was being lighthearted …
Thanks for reading, and for the comment!
Yes! Thank you. Exactly my problem with science classes in school were with teachers who taught it all in black and white, right and wrong, absolute truths. How can we know what a cat sees? Might its brain perceive differently than ours? We can’t know, or at least acknowledge the possibility of being wrong. We usually are. And for this I love science fiction, the good oldies.. Keep on.
e.
http://esayward85.wordpress.com/
Great point, e! Now that you mention it, I’m realizing that an early aversion to ‘science’ classes was directly related to exactly what you’re saying. Those were all about black/white/rules-by-rote and never about curiosity and wonder.
Thank you!
I really enjoyed reading your post – very interesting and insightful and well written. Congrats on FP!! 🙂
dena
http://www.parttimegypsies.com
Thanks, Dena.
Lovely explanation. Life is worth to be seek with such a passion with the sole asignment of being found by the diligent ones. This article is so cool!
~Great Love to you!
Mirian from peelingtheorange. “)
Mirian, I am most grateful you read and took the time to post a comment. Thank you.
I’m sorry, your source for “multiples” is a Flickr photo post written without more than one reference itself?
If I chop off Charlie’s arm, then Chase takes over the body, will the arm grow back?
Yes, I know, James, and if I’d been writing on multiples the refs would have been more substantial. In this post, however, I was about widening the questions.
Thanks for the comment.
Congratulations on being freshly pressed! I read something once, and I think you’ll like it.
“Some people think that they need to see something to believe it, but that’s all wrong, because what they really need to do is believe it so that they can see it.”
This is a major paraphrase, and a butchered one at that, but you take my point.
Thanks for the great post!
Sort of a version of “What you see is what you get / what you ‘get’ is what you see … “. I like it!
Thanks.
re: all the…. thoughts
POEM:
“arsenic-life”
+++++++++++++++
comment:
consider man and his thinking
consider the hands of man
POEM:
man uses
poison and tries to kill
weeds and rats
comment:
that little bacterial visual aide packs a punch, hu?
The science teacher in me is sad to read that you found science to be black-and-white in your classes. Without a sense of wonder, science is awfully boring. I hope this discovery starts some fruitful discussions in science classes. People might think this discovery means non-carbon-based life cannot be too far away. But to analogize it to a car, running on arsenic instead of phosphorus is like running on ethanol instead of petroleum. Yet a carbon-free organism would be like a car built out of soap bubbles – totally mind-boggling.
It seems your students may have a different experience, and I applaud you for that.
“A car built out of soap bubbles” … I like!
Thank you.
[…] A science is any discipline in which the fool of this generation can go beyond the point reached by the genius of the last generation. ~Max Gluckman Finally! Yes, the discovery has now been made that has expanded our version of what life is, and it's NASA, not an organization bent on biology, that stretched the limits of living. Seems there are, after all, life forms that don't conform to the accepted definition … go figure … and what an eye- … Read More […]
While life on earth ranges in pretty amazing conditions from the highest icy mountain to the lowest volcanic point in the ocean; yes, we did have to find something weirder.
carbon will be the most likely basis for life because it can form the most variety of shapes.
silicon is the next closest one, but is more limited in form
but beyond that, we can’t really expand the meaning of life when we don’t have a workable meaning for it.
Can’t expand our meaning because we don’t have a meaning. That is very interesting, and profound.
Thanks!
[…] https://sandrahanksbenoiton.wordpress.com/2010/12/03/news-from-nasalife-comes-in-other-flavors-no-kid… […]
In fact it has really fooled people who positioned all those radio receivers to hear from extra-terrestrial life
MAY BE THE SUPER ‘C’ IN ITSELF HAS THE UNEXPLORED POTENTIAL TO REPLACE ‘P’ AND ‘As’; who knows , extra terrestrially , that didn’t happen .
I feel that such life forms can really be literally SUPER .
We on earth lack many condition to test not only carbon but many similar elements on the lines of such probabilities.
My point is that we explain the properties of elements ON OUR OWN TERRAIN , not aware of the vast probabilities the universe as a whole renders
http://hubpages.com/profile/ajuvr
http://caseunique.weebly.com
Huh?
I had these exact same questionings and thoughts while reading about the new bacteria. And I just can’t believe NASA scientists were REALLY expecting to find the exact forms of life that can be found on Earth in other planets. Well, this weird bacteria proved not only life forms can exist from other elements than the six expected ones, but also I believe there must be life formed from elements we don’t even know. What if there were some kind of jupiterionium, venusium, calistonium and a bunch of elements not properly displayed in our Periodic Table?
Scients do need to watch more sci-fi, hehehe.
Interesting … I had a thought this morning after reading a comment posted by a science teacher. Perhaps entry-level classes in chemistry, biology, etc. should begin with a read of some good sci-fi, then move on to discussion on what’s ‘wrong’ with the ideas. Being that scientific research is based on being able to disprove, it seems like a good place to start the processes of thought.
Thanks so much for your comment, Heloisa!
Nice post.
Thanks, Adam.
Lie is full of curious coincidences…. I’m not sure how I accidentally stumbled upon your blog – it came up in a totally unrelated search, which means it was meant to happen.
I’ve written a newsletter for years but only brought it to WordPress last week (http://newnormalsurvival.wordpress.com). It’s mainly about the economy and backstreet stock market intrigue, but oddly, I have several NASA readers. I’m going to link to your story on my blog because I think they will enjoy reading it. I could swear I read about this bacteria years ago – I’m going to have to ask them about that….
My Monday blog is going to be devoted to the Doomsday Trade – there’s a concept for you to ponder! Is it possible to invest for Armageddon? Will you be able to collect if you’re right? Will there be anywhere to spend it??
Oh, my …
Thanks for reading.
Interesting reading. It is not surprising at all how a little bit about the right subject can have people looking in. With so many views on the issue, there’s hardly anything new that could be said. However, in defence of Science and NASA , Science is about facts being those that we can confirm and explain with logic and reason. And then there are further ASSUMPTIONS made based on these proved and undeniable facts which may find confirmation in time or may be discarded as wrong in time with further research or discovery to the contrary. Scientific theories DO NOT claim to be gospel truth. They are only possibilities based on- we of the scientific community agree- the extremely limited knowledge we mere humans have of the this our Earth and the limitless Cosmos and the astounding complexities of the forces that must regulate its being.
I can say for myself and most of my ilk that we harbour no pretence of genius. We are simply mere humans, as curious as any other human/ (!)being about our world surroundings,existence; about life, about the Cosmos. You name it , I’m curious, perhaps just like you. And I in my own way with whatever opportunity I might have, do try to find out and do try to understand whatever my limitations allow me. Every scientific fact so meticulously confirmed by those who made the effort, every attempt at garnering more knowledge about anything under and beyond the sun, every THEORY on any subject after all the intense study and research it takes and forwarded bravely in the face of a tomorrow that may prove you utterly wrong and loking foolish! They are all invaluable to me. They are the genius that fuel my desire for more, and provide me, fool, the impetus “…to go where no man has gone before,… to search out new worlds… ”
Sandra’s piece of writing is just one more piece of wood in that neverending fire.
I would suggest those involved in science are far more curious than many other human (!) beings by nature. Living with “why” tattooed on work is so stimulating!
Thanks much for reading, for taking the time to post this comment and for adding me to the woodpile.
S
well the blog offers a clear facet of your highly illuminated intellectual trait that by and large might even bounce above those not in touch with such experiences.
but in the end a real add with priceless information that still has to be unleashed in touch with the available one in here for scaling the culminating point of global acceptance.
hope to witness more such treasure embedded posts from your part
🙂
Highly illuminated … hm … I think I like that.
Thanks!
Sandra
nice post, but I dont understand in the some parts 🙂
So, just read the parts you like. 😉
Thanks.
I don’t think it’s fair to ridicule NASA or, by extension, the entire scientific world, if they stick to what science is supposed to do: Postulate theories, then prove them by finding facts supporting them, or disprove them by opposing facts.
Science is just about the facts and nothing but the facts. If it deviates from this path, it becomes speculation.
Your post is much about the latter – speculation – and there is nothing wrong with it at all. Speculation is an important aspect of human (and scientific) thinking. Without speculation, new theories would never be thought up.
However, what I have a big problem with is the confusion of scientific work and speculation. Thinking up new ideas is fascinating and fun, and I can think up strange and wonderful lifeforms as well – every photon might be alive in its own way, and who knows whether stellar gas clouds have some sort of consciousness or not? But criticising science for their lack of speculating is just wrong to me.
As for multiple persons, there is a view to see this as a mental condition. I don’t know where your quote for changing eye colours or scars comes from, but I’d like to see it supported by medical test results, or else it enters the realm of saints who get bleeding wounds at Easter and such – yes, you can call it hearsay.
All through your post, I was thinking about a china teapot circling the sun… it’s never been disproven, you know.
Hi Martin. I’m a poet, not a scientist, and this is a blog post, not a dissertation.
I like that china teapot thing a lot. Thanks!
Sandra Hanks,
Very Interesting, I enjoyed reading all the comments.
I believe, wondering is healthy, it broadens the mind, opens you up to all sorts of stray thoughts and possibilities.
Thanks.
Donia
Stray dogs, too, apparently …
thanks.
Love your brilliant ramblings. First time here, I must come back.
Congrats on Freshly Pressed!
Just think what our human minds could do if we set aside those two limiting disabilities, arrogance and lack of imagination, we would be already physically piloting our spaceships and exploring galaxies beyond our own without having to man them with robots. Why do robots get to have all the fun?
The invisible life forms are those from the 11 dimensions. Each dimension of folks may be aware of the other dimensions but no one has quite discovered the key to unlock the other dimensions. I was thinking about this this past weekend. Fancy I came upon your site this morning.
Wow, if we can will scars to form and disappear on the body, even if they are multiple people inside, oh my god, no telling what we can do with our minds.
Tiny life forms creating life out of chemical arsenic? Fascinating!!! I wonder if it could be a mutation of the environmental damage we have caused upon the earth?
Your post is one of the most fascinating and smart posts I have read on wordpress. I am so thrilled I decided to read it.
Happy week!
Thank you, thank you. Come by and read any time!
wow
this really is the bloggers blog. With just a little tweaking maybe we can be still enough to hear the earth talking to us, pleading for a return to paradise, what that it`s been barred by the cherubin? maybe… or maybe we can`t hear the voices from all the white noise we`ve created to soothe our scarred souls.
wonderful post, thank you
And, wow, how much to I like THAT designation. Thanks mucho!
Funny you mention the noise thing, since that was part of my topic today. Interesting how things spin around us …
I don’t think it’s that people never thought life could exist outside of what we were familiar with. In fact many scientists have been theorizing for decades that life could be based on any number of different chemical make-ups. However, none were ever scientifically verified and still remained pretty loosely based theories of possibility, which are cute and fun to think about, but lack any real scientific strength.
Scientists to this day theorize that there could be life out there that isn’t even matter based. Again, these are all just loose, weak theories. Any theory is just philosophy until it is experimentally verified. Which is the important part of this event.
I think the significance here lies not in our complete surprise, which in the scientific community was not that huge, but rather the fact that a theory finally became experimentally verified. Outside of the scientific community people can get excited about anything the news throws up.
You criticism should not be about NASA or the scientific community’s short-sightedness, but rather the ignorance of the everyday individual who receives all of their information from what FoxNews/NBC gives them, rather than taking the time to search out what scientists are working on in the real world.
” … but rather the ignorance of the everyday individual who receives all of their information from what FoxNews/NBC gives them, rather than taking the time to search out what scientists are working on in the real world.”
That was, actually, the subtext, but I know I’m twisted enough for that to be missed.
I find it very interesting that scientist-types seem to be taking issue here when it’s clear this is a poet’s take. Can’t help but wonder what a response from poets to a scientist’s verse might look like …
And, of course, you are correct. Science, as we know it today, requires verification, proof, disproof and vetted, published results. That is the process that gives factual knowledge. But factual knowledge is not a conclusion. We get to keep going far beyond those limits.
Thanks much for reading and for taking time to post your comment. I love when someone drops by and takes my mind out for a wander.
Sandra
And I thought NASA was full of the cleverest people on earth…..
http://www.twago.com/expert/business/online-business-proposal
SOME of the cleverest people on earth …
ok fine welcome lol…and sorry i couldn’t check the new article or reply it earlier as i was hanging out with my closest aliens(my closest ones)…lol… well hoping to read more interesting topics on ur side… 🙂
Tell them I said ‘hi’ …
yeah sure and their “hi” to u 2..
That’s nice of them … thanks.
I really enjoyed this article… I had no idea about the ‘multiple’ people! That’s amazing!
I always find it amazing that science fiction can predict the future.
I’ll be back to read more soon. 🙂
Thank you. There’s not much documentation I can find on those aspects of multiples, but quite a bit on changes in visual acuity and other physical manifestations that very between personalities. Fascinating stuff …
The topic of this article attracted me. Though i’m into physics, astronomy, space et al has been of interest. Lifeforms generally are as we know it but on a different platform throughout the universe. The closer our galaxy is, the closer the species seen. You’ll be amazed at what the life forms on the other end of the universe looks like…nice job with your post
I look forward to being amazed!
Thanks for stopping by.
Sandra
I do have to agree with you in the wondering why scientist would think everything had to be made up of the same thing and why it took physically discovering something totally different to change their minds ?? hmm… maybe scientist have never learned to think outside the box! lol
great post and congrats on being freshly pressed!
Thank you for reading, and commenting!
Best,
Sandra
Ilmu pengetahuan modern yang mengungkap ada bentuk kehidupan lain, ini menakjubkan. Berarti alat ilmu pengetahuan dan teknologi yang material sudah bisa mengamati non material. Umumnya filsafat universal yang seringkali membahas hal ini. Titik temu filsafat kuno dan modern akan terjawab nanti oleh ilmu pengetahuan modern. Ya.., posting yang bagus. Selamat.
Terima kasih.
Selemat,
Sandra
Modern science expressing there is form other;dissimilar life, this amaze. Mean technology and science appliance which the material have perceived the non material. Generally the universal philosophy which oftentimes explain this matter. Dot encounter modern and ancient philosophy will be replied to wait by modern science. Yes.., posting nicely. Thanks. Congratulation !
And in English, thank you.
[…] A science is any discipline in which the fool of this generation can go beyond the point reached by the genius of the last generation. ~Max Gluckman Finally! Yes, the discovery has now been made that has expanded our version of what life is, and it's NASA, not an organization bent on biology, that stretched the limits of living. Seems there are, after all, life forms that don't conform to the accepted definition … go figure … and what an eye- … Read More […]
I do like your article and I understand where you’re coming from, and you are right, but science just can’t make up claims about life existing in other various forms. Undoubtedly, not everything science has discovered is the potential truth, and the article certainly is something amazing that has been found because it has evidence. But there are still going to be many people who’s going to challenge the claim that whether Arsenic really is a good substitution for phosphorus which is crucial in life. And like you, it would be hard for me to understand such an article, but I am interested in science and I do understand it, but I certainly don’t have the capability to read the journal in which all the data was presented and collected. That’s where the evidence is, and I’m sure scientists understand the broad perspectives of life, and thats why NASA funded this research is because they were interested in the such life forms.
I agree, and I thank you for reading, and for commenting.
Great post! I’ve always figured if we found life outside of Earth it would take a form beyond what any of us would be able to imagine in advance, seems like this on Earth discovery gives my hunch some scientific basis.
I particularly really love the Evelyn Fox Keller quote, I think sometimes people come too close to regarding modern science as dogma, which disregards to big picture of scientific history–so much of what we think we know are just guesses made on the way to later discoveries.
ทัวร์เกาหลี ทัวร์พม่า
Great post! I’ve always figured if we found life outside of Earth it would take a form beyond what any of us would be able to imagine in advance, seems like
[…] A science is any discipline in which the fool of this generation can go beyond the point reached by the genius of the last generation. ~Max Gluckman Finally! Yes, the discovery has now been made that has expanded our version of what life is, and it's NASA, not an organization bent on biology, that stretched the limits of living. Seems there are, after all, life forms that don't conform to the accepted definition … go figure … and what an eye- … Read More […]